Location: Q&A: TMS or truly bulging disc?

Discussion: TMS or Truly a bulging disk?

Category: Discussion Forum / General Discussion

Report thread
Watch thread
Share this

1 2 | Next

Posted Anonymously	TMS or Truly a bulging disk? May 27 2009, 4:08 PM EDT I have had sciatica for about a year now. I done PT, Oral Steroids, Chiropractic, ice and heat. I am at wits end because nothing is working. I have had an MRI and it revealed a slightly bulging disk at L5-S1 that "may or may not be the root of my pain". I have all the symptoms of a bulging disk, but I am wondering now if I have TMS. Any advice you can give me is much appreciated. I guess my biggest question is that if all my symptoms support the L5-S1 bulge, how can it be TMS? Post reply Do you find this valuable? Keyword tags: bulging disk Georgie MRI sciatica
Posted Anonymously	1. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Jun 4 2009, 1:24 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 4 2009, 1:24 PM EDT Firstly, there is a lot of research out there to show that slipped discus, degeneration etc found on MRI are just as common with people who don't have pain, i.e normal 'abnormalities'. See brief examples below. Ann Rheum Dis.2003 From their results they deduced that; “Degenerative disc disease, as seen on imaging, is not a painful condition.” Masui et al. 2005 (study followed up at 2 & 7 yrs) ‘There was progressive disc degeneration in all patients. However there was no predictive correlation between MRI findings and the continuation of pain.’ Spine 1984: CAT scans in asymptomatic subjects – about ⅓ found to be abnormal The Journal of Bone & Joint Surgery 1990: MRI scans of 67 people aged 20 – 80yrs who had never had back problems. About ⅓ of the subjects were found to have a substantial abnormality. 1994 New England Journal of medicine: MRI of the Lumbar Spine in People without Back Pain – only about ⅓ had normal discs! This then fits with my findings with my own patients before I came across TMS, in that so many of them became pain free and remained so after very gentle hands on treatments, yet they still had the 'abnormalities' found on MRI. So what what been causing the pain then? People with TMS have a wide range of symptoms and this may fit in with a previous diagnosis given, or not. The symptoms you have just show which nerve root is being affected, not by pressure from the disc on the nerve, but according the TMS theory, by hypoxia to that nerve root. The "may or may not be the root of the problem" just goes to show that the specialist thought it unlikely your "slightly bulging disc" was large enough to cause the symptoms you have. More of a case for TMS then. I hope that helps. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
GeorgieO	2. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Jun 4 2009, 1:25 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 4 2009, 1:25 PM EDT Sorry, that was me! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Posted Anonymously	3. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Jun 6 2009, 11:56 AM EDT "Firstly, there is a lot of research out there to show that slipped discus, degeneration etc found on MRI are just as common with people who don't have pain, i.e normal 'abnormalities'. See brief examples below. Ann Rheum Dis.2003 From their results they deduced that; “Degenerative disc disease, as seen on imaging, is not a painful condition.” Masui et al. 2005 (study followed up at 2 & 7 yrs) ‘There was progressive disc degeneration in all patients. However there was no predictive correlation between MRI findings and the continuation of pain.’ Spine 1984: CAT scans in asymptomatic subjects – about ⅓ found to be abnormal The Journal of Bone & Joint Surgery 1990: MRI scans of 67 people aged 20 – 80yrs who had never had back problems. About ⅓ of the subjects were found to have a substantial abnormality. 1994 New England Journal of medicine: MRI of the Lumbar Spine in People without Back Pain – only about ⅓ had normal discs! This then fits with my findings with my own patients before I came across TMS, in that so many of them became pain free and remained so after very gentle hands on treatments, yet they still had the 'abnormalities' found on MRI. So what what been causing the pain then? People with TMS have a wide range of symptoms and this may fit in with a previous diagnosis given, or not. The symptoms you have just show which nerve root is being affected, not by pressure from the disc on the nerve, but according the TMS theory, by hypoxia to that nerve root. The "may or may not be the root of the problem" just goes to show that the specialist thought it unlikely your "slightly bulging disc" was large enough to cause the symptoms you have. More of a case for TMS then. I hope that helps. " thank you for your response. I will start journaling to see if I can uncover my underlying issue. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
andres207	4. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Nov 13 2011, 9:51 AM EST "I have had sciatica for about a year now. I done PT, Oral Steroids, Chiropractic, ice and heat. I am at wits end because nothing is working. I have had an MRI and it revealed a slightly bulging disk at L5-S1 that "may or may not be the root of my pain". I have all the symptoms of a bulging disk, but I am wondering now if I have TMS. Any advice you can give me is much appreciated. I guess my biggest question is that if all my symptoms support the L5-S1 bulge, how can it be TMS?" I have your identical diagnosis and had chronic pain for four years. I just found out about TMS and I am on day 4 of my treatment. I am pretty sure I have TMS but I can't confirm it with a professional because I am based in Argentina and theres no one here to consult. So please, tell me how it went for you after two years! If you have a success story that would be a big reassurance for me. Thanks! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
andres207	5. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Nov 13 2011, 10:00 AM EST "Sorry, that was me!" Hello Georgie! I saw you listed under practitioners who can treat patients online or by phone. I recently just read Dr Sarno's books and I am pretty sure I have TMS. However, it's been hammered so deep in my mind for four years that there's something wrong with a bulging disc in my lower back that I can consciously convince myself to a 90% of my TMS symptom, I clearly need to talk to a professional to take me through that las 10%. I was wondering how this work i.e.: how do I contact you, how do I pay you, etc. Thanks Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Back2-It	6. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Nov 13 2011, 10:20 AM EST "I have your identical diagnosis and had chronic pain for four years. I just found out about TMS and I am on day 4 of my treatment. I am pretty sure I have TMS but I can't confirm it with a professional because I am based in Argentina and theres no one here to consult. So please, tell me how it went for you after two years! If you have a success story that would be a big reassurance for me. Thanks!" I have a large herniated thoracic disc which protrudes to the left. All my symptoms were to the right; yet doctors would do one of two things: tell me my case was hopeless and/or refuse to even treat me because of where the disc was located. Turns out that I figured out myself that the symptoms didn't match the pathology of the disc. When I would point this out to subsequent docs that I saw, they would admit that that seems to be the case --- but they would always toss in that the "cross connection" of nerves in the spinal column COULD be producing the pain. I also wondered how I could bend over, twist, stretch, reach, etc. if my back were so bad. Read HBP and MBP. Learned about spines. I have really come to believe that Sarno is totally correct in his theory that having back problems is perfectly acceptable to the mass consciousness of people, back problems having replaces ulcers. I later read that in one medical sampling of people who were given an MRI for reasons other than spine, found that 73% were abnormal in the thoracic area and 37% had herniated discs there -- BUT HAD NO SYMPTOMS. For the area you are describing I think the the percentages are even higher When it comes to spines, unless it is a traumatic car wreck or accident, most doctors are just guessing. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
andres207	7. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Nov 13 2011, 4:12 PM EST "I have a large herniated thoracic disc which protrudes to the left. All my symptoms were to the right; yet doctors would do one of two things: tell me my case was hopeless and/or refuse to even treat me because of where the disc was located. Turns out that I figured out myself that the symptoms didn't match the pathology of the disc. When I would point this out to subsequent docs that I saw, they would admit that that seems to be the case --- but they would always toss in that the "cross connection" of nerves in the spinal column COULD be producing the pain. I also wondered how I could bend over, twist, stretch, reach, etc. if my back were so bad. Read HBP and MBP. Learned about spines. I have really come to believe that Sarno is totally correct in his theory that having back problems is perfectly acceptable to the mass consciousness of people, back problems having replaces ulcers........ " Hello Back2-it! My lumbar disc is bulging slightly and it's been hurting ever since a whiplash incident while surfing. I am sure I was conditioning because a couple weeks after the incident I had MRI that showed no bulging and the pain was there anyways. The Dr said it might be due to "micro rips" on a disc that were invisible to the MRI. Then my back is fully bendable/twistable just like yours, it only hurt while walking, or standing or sitting a little while. It really does sound like doc are guessing a lot with their diagnoses. Anyhow, I am on day 4 of my TMS treatment and today I have more pain than days 1,2 and 3. So I really need some reasurance that I'm taking the right path and I'm not hurting myself. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Back2-It	8. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Nov 13 2011, 5:11 PM EST \| Post edited: Nov 13 2011, 5:13 PM EST Micro rips? Now, that's a new one on me. You have a clear MRI, no? What's not to love? You should put an end to the med professionals simply guessing. Micro rips? Okay, even if they are real, they are MICRO, no? In a year they would be long healed. Look, you have had all this time with pain, and you have seen the gamut of medical professionals, so why not begin to accept that emotions can cause pain? I believe it's in MBP that Sarno says that he never head of people injuring themselves more by resuming activity. I suppose you can have flare-ups, especially if you are examining some of the stresses in your life. You have nothing to lose but the pain by beginning this process. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
andres207	9. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Nov 13 2011, 8:01 PM EST whoa, thanks a lot. I am very committed to the program. Just having few fears and doubts that I figure everyone had during the process. I am revisiting all my fears, anxieties, stressors and locked emotions and I found I really dont know what to do with them. Mostly I feel these thoughts are increasing my back pain. I read somewhere that when you have a flare up you should try to think of a repressed bad memory or emotion, so as to tell your brain that the pain isn't doing the trick, it's not distracting you. So you say I should just keep stirring the pot of emotions and wait it out? That somehow I will come to terms with it all and the pain goes away? Thanks and sorry for all the nagging. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
GeorgieO	10. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Nov 14 2011, 7:16 AM EST \| Post edited: Nov 14 2011, 7:26 AM EST Hi Andres, firstly you are no different from anyone else starting on this work in that you have fears and doubts about this approach. You are very early on with this 'work' so it's not surprising, but as you know these can then hinder your progress unless you can overcome them, which I am sure you will. It is also no suprise that your symptoms are worse after beginning to deal with all the underlying emotions that are behind the pain. Remember though, resolving the pain is often not just about acknowledging the emotions, but about putting things into perspective in order to be able to let go and move on with your life. It is definitely not about 'stirring the pot of emotions', but more about acknowledging them and then use journaling again to explore what you have learned from the issue and how you can understand it from all angles in order to be able to let go and move on. All the journaling studies show that this is very important and my experience with patients over the past few years supports this. Also, although understanding, reviewing and journaling is important, it is definitely not the be all and end all. Unfortunately the majority of stories online are all from people who have had quick recoveries doing just this. However people who haven't recovered after doing this can still recover fully, they might just need some more guidance or information. If it helps, the MRI report of one lady I know said, 'massive prolapsed disc compressing both exiting nerves'. She had severe signs of a massive prolapsed disc, although most of her symptoms were one side only! She resolved her pain in weeks, yet due to underlying doubts it took her longer to get her ankles reflexes, her muscle strength and numbness back to normal. Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
GeorgieO	11. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Nov 14 2011, 7:24 AM EST \| Post edited: Nov 14 2011, 7:31 AM EST Basically, if you have spinal degeneration/a prolapsed disc and the Specialists have ruled out anything else, plus they are not concerned enough to refer you for urgent surgery, then it will be TMS/PPD. One point too, if you feel overwhelmed by your feelings after journaling about any old 'stuff'', journaling about positive things can also have beneficial effects too. Also re. your comment about dealing with flareups. The underlying emotion may well be an old issue being triggered, but it could also just be how you are feeling about something happening currently, or a thought that caused an emotion which was immediately repressed. In other words, you don't necessarily need to delve into old stuff to uncover what it is. You might be able to just tell the pain to go away, but ideally have a brain dump on paper! i.e. free write onto paper, dictating your thoughts and allow them to go where they want. Often this will come up with something you weren't aware of, especially if you do it openly and not by TRYING to find something. If your symptoms don't improve just by journaling past issues, don't forget how much pressure our personality causes us, often on a day to day basis. If this is ignored then even though you might be dealing with your old stresses, current ones might just be being added to the 'pot', so to speak. The other things to recognise is that you might need to work on any conditioned reponses and also look at whether you provide enough time for self care in your life. e.g. time away from the constant information overload in our lives, for example by using mindfulness, meditation, etc I hope that helps? I would be happy to have a quick chat with you if this has brought up any queries, although this might be best sorted out by sending me a private message. All the best, Georgie Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
andres207	12. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Nov 14 2011, 8:54 AM EST Georgie, Thanks a lot. I am amazed at how people here unterestedly help out strangers. I guess I would do the same if I knew the answer to their horrid pains. I will keep posting my progress since it will help others and will also bring feedbacks like these that help me a lot. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
andres207	13. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Nov 14 2011, 9:18 AM EST Georgie, Again, thanks much. I am certainly taking on a restructuring of the way I live, because I do have a combination of all factors: personality, stressors, locked past emotions and fears. I am pretty normal, though. I never had a severe trauma or too nasty events in my childhood. I did have divorced parents and somewhat of a frustrated adolescence which I know shaped my present personality. My personality (perfectionist, obsessed, overachieving), puts an immense load of stress on me and I always thought I could manage it until now, when I realize that I have been living in physical pain for 5 years (when I recovered from an 10-month long mononucleosis I started with back pains blaming a whiplash incident). And today whenever my lower back doesnt hurt -rarely- I get flue-like symptoms identical to those I had when I had mononucleosis. Everything seems to fit a psychosomatic diagnosis. I would love to have a chat with you. Thats very kind of you to offer. Maybe let me work through the program a little bit more so that I know what I figure out for myself and what are concrete doubts that I need to consult with someone else. I'll keep in touch. Thanks again! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
mariel100	14. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Nov 14 2011, 9:46 AM EST " So please, tell me how it went for you after two years! If you have a success story that would be a big reassurance for me. Thanks!" Hi Andres, if you can see Georgie's TMS website then you can see my story, I'm called Marie Lovell. An MRI has shown I have a prolapsed disc. I had severe sciatica for almost a year. I now have no pain, take no medications, swim, dance, cycle, work etc I followed the TMS programme and it felt like it took forever to work at the time....but in rality it was only a few months. Contact me if you'd like to, best wishes, m Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
andres207	15. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Nov 14 2011, 11:32 AM EST Mariel100, Thanks for sharing. When my pain started the MRI showed nothing at all. Now 4 years later the MRI shows a slight protrusion (not even hernia) of the L5-S1, which is said to be a very very common abnormality and should cause no pain in most cases. Anyhow, my pain has been daily for 4 years and in the last two months has ruined my honeymoon and rendered me depressed and bedridden until last week when I read Sarno's book and started working on TMS diagnosis. I was having scary sciatica when I read Sarno's book, the few days after I felt great. Now, days 4 and 5 are kind of painful but without sciatica. I am going all out and doing all the things that are supposed to make pain worse, despite the fears of hurting myself. Thanks a lot for sharing your story with me. It really helps. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
pandamonium09	16. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Nov 15 2011, 5:49 PM EST Hi Andres, to me the fact that you pain pre-dates the protrusion would suggest that is is not the cause of your pain. I had a similar situation, at first I was relieved that the MRI had shown up a physical defect, but then I realised that the previous MRI had shown nothing but I was still in a lot of pain at that time. So this was evidence for me which helped persuade me of TMS. My story is linked in my profile if you want to take a look. PS my honeymoon was also semi-ruined by my pain so I know how you feel. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
andres207	17. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Nov 15 2011, 10:16 PM EST Hi pandemonium, I read your story and i must say it's quite amazing. I felt so happy for you as I read through. One same thing happened to me: I was in pain for 4 years without an identifiable cause, and when I saw there was a bulging disc on the MRI I thought "thank good, now I know what I have", if they know what the problem is, they must know the solution, right? Turns out there was no solution... the doctors said there was nothing to operate and there was nothing I could do except "conserve" my disc and prevent it from degenerating further, which is what was going to happen anyways. Having been in bed for a month, when family and friends asked me what I had, about 60% of them told me "oh yeah, I have herniated discs";"Oh yeah, I have a bulging disc", etc. But they were not in pain at all. So I started thinking that discs do bulge and degenerate and that is what happens to everybody, and not everybody is in excrutiating pain. This reasoning and Sarno's book made the penny drop. I still have to work on it a lot, because I have deep rooted conditionings and fears about the mechanics of my spine. I am conscious now that my spine is fine, but still have these instinctive reflexes to protect it in spite of what my reason dictates. Thanks a lot for sharing and helping out. It really makes a difference. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
pandamonium09	18. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Nov 16 2011, 3:40 AM EST Andres, if you have not done so already I suggest you read this article http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199407143310201 It convinced me more than ever that I had TMS and once I accepted the diagnosis I was on my way to being pain-free. My back presumably still has disc degeneration but these days I have no pain and am living life to the full. Good luck and stay in touch. Panda Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
andres207	19. RE: TMS or Truly a bulging disk? Nov 16 2011, 8:29 AM EST pandemonium, thanks a lot for the article. very good stuff. Post reply Do you find this valuable?

1 2 | Next

Q&A: How do I handle an acute relapse?	Q&A: Fearful of getting really hurt	My Victory Over Pain, by Baseball65
Q&A "Runner's knee" or TMS	Sciatica	Success Stories by Symptoms & Diagnoses
So You Think You Might Have TMS	Fear of walking	am i holding out on the diagnosis?
learning	Help from peers? Thank you kindly. :)	sciatica again

Location: Q&A: TMS or truly bulging disc?

Discussion: TMS or Truly a bulging disk?

Related Content